<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1523</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/18/99 12:29:53 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 18 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1523<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: 7 Wonders of Charted Space<BR>
Re: 7 Wonders of Charted Space<BR>
Re: [OT] Firearms Discussions (long)<BR>
Re: back on topic?  was: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
RE: Thunder Child (was re: They're coming (again))<BR>
RE: The Royal Australian Space Navy<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Re: Guns again...<BR>
Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1517<BR>
RE: The Royal Australian Space Navy<BR>
Re: OT: Hot Rods and Gun Bunnies<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Re: OT US Gun Control C**P on TML<BR>
Re: Mistranslating the Ten Commandments (was Re: SillyTraveller)<BR>
Re: independent Terran invention of jump drive? sure<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Re: The Royal Australian Space Navy<BR>
Re: Re Rations<BR>
Re: FFW ship stats<BR>
Re: Re Rations<BR>
Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:21:11 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: 7 Wonders of Charted Space<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/17/99 4:45:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, rancke@diku.dk <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< or possibly the 7<BR>
 Wonders of the Domain of Deneb? >><BR>
<BR>
the Grav cities of Vincennes?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:22:48 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: 7 Wonders of Charted Space<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/17/99 4:57:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
meow@advancenet.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Does Lucans Ego count? >><BR>
<BR>
Actually, I thought he was an insecure little jerk (small ego) with a power <BR>
fixation...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:41:35 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Firearms Discussions (long)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/17/99 10:27:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Amazing!  What a wonderful, coherent, sane and articulate post on a topic<BR>
 that makes a lot of people simply lose their minds.  >><BR>
<BR>
I concur....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:44:24 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: back on topic?  was: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> You have to keep in mind that while *most* Southerners thought that<BR>
> blacks were "inferior" they *didn't* approve of KKK tactics such as<BR>
> shootings, burnings, hangings and mutilations. So when the KKK<BR>
>got whupped in one of these confrontations, most of the locals would<BR>
>think "serves 'em right" as long as the blacks didn't get "uppity"<BR>
>because of it.<BR>
<BR>
In the days when lynching was most popular, you'd have, quite literally,<BR>
whole towns coming out to join in the festivities. By the 50s and 60s, it<BR>
was no longer something that whole towns would participate in, but the worst<BR>
crimes still went unpunished because, by and large, there was a degree of<BR>
agreement with what was going on. There were also many killings which<BR>
weren't directly Klan related, so I'm always leery of interpretations which<BR>
put the focus solely on them and their actions.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:47:26 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Thunder Child (was re: They're coming (again))<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Walter Smith<BR>
> Sent: Friday, 17 December 1999 7:54 AM<BR>
> To: 'TML'<BR>
> Subject: Thunder Child (was re: They're coming (again))<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Frank Pitt wrote:<BR>
> >>>>>>>>>><BR>
> Personally I think that "Thunder Child" is the most stiurring<BR>
> song, as well<BR>
> as having some great assonance<BR>
><BR>
> "Lashing ropes and smashing timbers<BR>
> Flashing heat-rays pierced the deck<BR>
> Dashing hopes for our deliveance<BR>
> As we watched the sinking wreck"<BR>
> >>>>>>>>>>><BR>
> That differs from my take on the fate of the _Thunder Child_.<BR>
><BR>
> If I remember Wells' book correctly, _Thunder Child_ sank with all hands<BR>
> while ramming (and destroying) a martian war machine that was moments<BR>
> away from slaughtering boatloads of English civilians who were attempting<BR>
> to flee across the channel. A moment of heroic defiance to the end,<BR>
> lives nobly sacrificed for the (successful) protection of the innocent.<BR>
><BR>
> I saw it as more inspirational, than "dashing hopes".<BR>
><BR>
> Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
I always wondered where the rest of the Royal Navy was, after all they did<BR>
have more than one iron clad.<BR>
<BR>
Antony Farrell<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:47:28 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: The Royal Australian Space Navy<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of David Healey<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, 16 December 1999 2:13 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: The Royal Australian Space Navy<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> On 14/12/99, Kyle Schuant said :<BR>
><BR>
> >I wonder if the HMASS Melbourne would be better<BR>
> >piloted than the HMAS Melbourne was (which Aussie<BR>
> >ship, for ten points, sank three ships in its career,<BR>
> >two Aussie and one USA?)<BR>
><BR>
> An extra ten if you can name the HMA Ship damaged by a US missile<BR>
> and where ?<BR>
><BR>
> Dave<BR>
><BR>
Well I dont know the answer to that question, or what was the third ship<BR>
Melbourne sank? I know about HMAS Voyager and the USS Frank E Evans.<BR>
<BR>
Anb in keeping with Melbournes reputation as a jinxed ship when being towed<BR>
the to breakers she managed to slip the tow line and tried to run down the<BR>
tug. Perhaps thwe Virus?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 18:53:42 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
> >I don't recall that from the theater version. Then again, that may be a<BR>
> >difference between the US and foreign releases.<BR>
<BR>
> The last scences, in the US theater & on my video version were of a large<BR>
> warehouse in which a crate was being pushed. The crate was slowly smoking,<BR>
> fading out the U.S. Army stencil.  Very X-files feel.<BR>
<BR>
From memory, the scary part was that it implied they had more than one of<BR>
them !<BR>
<BR>
( I seem to remember the box being placed next to another identical box<BR>
with the same serial number)<BR>
<BR>
BTW, I saw it in New Zealand, so our prints had it too.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 18:53:42 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
> >I don't recall that from the theater version. Then again, that may be a<BR>
> >difference between the US and foreign releases.<BR>
<BR>
> The last scences, in the US theater & on my video version were of a large<BR>
> warehouse in which a crate was being pushed. The crate was slowly smoking,<BR>
> fading out the U.S. Army stencil.  Very X-files feel.<BR>
<BR>
From memory, the scary part was that it implied they had more than one of<BR>
them !<BR>
<BR>
( I seem to remember the box being placed next to another identical box<BR>
with the same serial number)<BR>
<BR>
BTW, I saw it in New Zealand, so our prints had it too.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:54:49 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
<BR>
From: Eric Henry <ehenry@newberlin.org><BR>
<BR>
>The socialized medicine thing would have to go, however.<BR>
<BR>
That's funny, I didn't think that Canada had socialized medicine. On the<BR>
other hand, having seen the economic hardship that prolonged sickness can,<BR>
and more often than not, does bring onto families, I'm far from convinced<BR>
that "capitalized medicine" is all that much better.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:59:24 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Well, it doesn't need *different* metals. Just that the ark be built<BR>
> (as it was) of an insulator (wood?) covered inside and out with metal<BR>
> *and no connection between the inside and outside metal coverings.*<BR>
<BR>
<snippage><BR>
<BR>
> There's an *old*(late 60s/early 70s) Popular Science (or maybe<BR>
> Scientific American) with plans for building one at home.<BR>
> <BR>
> You get enough voltage for it to arc over a quarter inch gap. <BR>
<BR>
So what you're saying is that it was really the Arc of the Covenant?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:01:23 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Guns again...<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/17/99 8:22 PM, jimpeta@primus.com.au wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Our government responded to this by banning semi-autos and cutting back<BR>
> on mental health spending, no one was surprised.<BR>
<BR>
Well, even as a firearms advocate, I can understand banning semi-autos (I<BR>
disagree, but see the reasoning) but cutting back on mental health spending<BR>
seems to be the opposite of a sane response.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:12:05 -0600<BR>
From: "shadowcat" <meow@advancenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
<BR>
Many years ago, there was a Supermarket in Iowa City that had <BR>
the following on the marquee out front <BR>
"Santa Bears are here, see Display in fresh meat department"<BR>
<BR>
Shadowcat AKA Kevin Walsh<BR>
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf<BR>
ADD/ADHD Advocate<BR>
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 01:02:09 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/17/99 1:30:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, efritz@GLJA.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Well, this Canadian has no problem with that. But I don't know how all<BR>
 you Americans would feel about becoming the eleventh province! >><BR>
<BR>
I think (especially after reading the 2nd. Amen flamewar) that both sides <BR>
would hate this. As an example, I'm NOT giving up my firearms, and other <BR>
people of the opposite side of this debate are just as likely to be <BR>
intransigent on the opposite extreme...<BR>
<BR>
Ob trav. the Solomani Rim War (I can't wait to see Doug's interpretation of <BR>
it). Actually come to think about it, maybe the Zhodani/Imperial conflicts <BR>
and their opposite views on psionics are a better example...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 01:06:21 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The last scences, in the US theater & on my video version were of a<BR>
>large warehouse in which a crate was being pushed. The crate was<BR>
>slowly smoking, fading out the U.S. Army stencil.  Very X-files feel.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think that it was a U.S. Army stencil, I think that it was just the<BR>
serial number. I personally thought that the most haunting thing was that<BR>
there was a whole *warehouse* of anonymous boxes, each probably containing<BR>
something equally bizarre...<BR>
<BR>
...which was a big part of the reason that I was such a sucker for the<BR>
Warehouse 23 sourcebook from Steve Jackson Games. The other part of the<BR>
reason is that I was a big Burroughs fan, and I was going through my 23<BR>
phase when it came out.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 17:06:22 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
<BR>
    I have always loved the scenario "Marooned (Alone)", it was travelling<BR>
at its best. Stuck on a planet with a nebulous time limit (and an S-series)<BR>
hanging over your head. I was looking at it again last night and I noticed<BR>
the survival weapon, eg Rifle -2.<BR>
    A nice survival weapon for the IISS would be a bullpup 5mm/12Gauge combo<BR>
survival weapon. The scouts would take one look at it and think "This is<BR>
good for keeping boarders out too!" and immediately order some very non<BR>
standard 12 guage ammo. The trouble is, after my last disastrous attempt at<BR>
some weapons tables written without the aid of FF&S or 3G3 I'm a bit shy of<BR>
designing it. Would any of the owners of afore mentioned weapons books care<BR>
to take a swipe at designing one?<BR>
<BR>
    Survival Weapon System<BR>
    TL 12<BR>
    Bullpup config<BR>
    5mm semi-auto, caseless<BR>
    12 guage semi-auto, cased or caseless<BR>
    Weapon length not to exceed 700mm<BR>
    Sighting system to include some form of Low Light and/or Thermal Vision.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 19:40:03 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1517<BR>
<BR>
On 18 Dec 99, at 15:22, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>     I'm a gun addict but this is getting to me. No further away than 20km<BR>
> from my house a guy called Martin Bryant calmly walked around killing<BR>
> people with a semi-auto rifle. He killed thirty four people and wounded<BR>
> eighteen, most were trapped in a restaurant as he stood in the doorway. He<BR>
> delivered coup de gras to children while adults were in the room trying to<BR>
> get out. If he had a knife he would not of made it, they would have<BR>
> swarmed him and he would have been caught. He had time to reload several<BR>
> times because too many of his victims were too terrified to try and knock<BR>
> him over.<BR>
<BR>
Actually IIRC they weren't trapped, as there was an unlocked fire-exit <BR>
that nobody thought to try and use. What's more if the adults had tried <BR>
to get out through the door he was in he wouldn't have been able to <BR>
give anyone a coup de gras, as he'd have been overrun. I can't help but <BR>
think that if concealed carry of firearm was permitted Bryant wouldn't <BR>
have had the opportunity to kill so many, as someone would've nailed <BR>
him.<BR>
<BR>
Here in NZ we had someone (Anderson?) go after his family while they <BR>
were holding a reunion. He killed six people, and one of them was shot <BR>
after he'd got his shotgun and was going for the ammo (which was stored <BR>
separately from the gun, as required by law). If that victim had <BR>
disobeyed the law there's a good chance he'd be alive today, as well as <BR>
those shot after him. BTW the weapon Anderson used was a single <BR>
barrelled, single shot 12 gauge shotgun. The next day our Prime <BR>
Minister got on the Telly and told the nation how MSSAs were evil and <BR>
should be banned. Ain't gun control wonderful?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 19:40:03 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: The Royal Australian Space Navy<BR>
<BR>
On 18 Dec 99, at 13:47, Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Anb in keeping with Melbournes reputation as a jinxed ship when being<BR>
> towed the to breakers she managed to slip the tow line and tried to run<BR>
> down the tug. Perhaps thwe Virus?<BR>
<BR>
I'd say that's just what any decent ship would do. Would you want to <BR>
have a go at those who're towing you to your doom? IIRC HMS Warspite <BR>
also slipped her tow on the way to the wreckers.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 19:40:03 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Hot Rods and Gun Bunnies<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Dec 99, at 19:48, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> It doesn't help that the cheapest ammo for several types of rifles is<BR>
> surplus Russian and Soviet military ammo, a lot of which *is* "armor<BR>
> piercing" in that it contains a steel "penetrator" inside the lead bullet.<BR>
> Which is moderately irrelevant, since even without the penetrator, a round<BR>
> would go thru a vest *or* the door of a vehicle. With the penetrator, it<BR>
> may damage a car engine. <BR>
<BR>
Those soviet or chinese "AP" rounds actually aren't really armour <BR>
piercing, and IMO were never meant to be. There "penetrator" is made of <BR>
soft steel and isn't really shaped right. Beside given the low <BR>
(relatively speaking) power of the 7.62x39 round they don't penetrate <BR>
very well anyway. A friend and I once set up a 1/4" steel plate at 15 <BR>
yards from us and shot it up with every weapon we had available. 30-06, <BR>
7.62 NATO, .303 and 7.62x39 ball all penetrated, but the 7.62x39 was <BR>
marginal (obften only partially penetrating). 5.56 NATO would only <BR>
penetrate when it hit an already weakend point (so much for T2K's <BR>
penetration ratings). .270 Winchester, 30-06, 7.62 NATO, .303 and .243 <BR>
Winchester using soft nosed hunting bullets all penetrated (though the <BR>
.243 was marginal). 12 gauge 1oz shotgun slugs made big dents 1/2 - <BR>
3/4" deep, but didn't penetrate, as did 0.58 Minie bullets from a <BR>
Zouave replica (using standard amounts of powder for the original - not <BR>
very hot by today's standards). .45 lead ball from my black powder <BR>
rifle made dents with light loads, and would nearly penetrate at <BR>
maximum loading.<BR>
<BR>
We also had some fun shooting at a sloped 1.5" plate that my father <BR>
uses as a backstop on his 100 yards range with various rifles. Judging <BR>
by the size of the craters by 100 yds the 7.62x39 was starting to loose <BR>
some energy, as were the black powder rifles, but the others were still <BR>
blasting along quite nicely. From what I saw you'd have to be a fair <BR>
way away or wearing a lot of armour before the difference between the <BR>
penetration of ball and a hunting bullet would be significant. What's <BR>
more unless your armour was rigid the lack of penetration by shotgun <BR>
slugs and large black powder weapons might not matter very much - I'd <BR>
say that broken ribs would be the least serious result.<BR>
<BR>
BTW if anyone wants to repeat this experiment mear heavy clothing and <BR>
good saftey glasses. The shotgun slugs, in particular, tend to splash <BR>
and the steel core from 7.62x39 rounds sometimes bouce back if they <BR>
don't penetrate.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 19:40:03 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Dec 99, at 22:01, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> None of these reasons apply to LSD, however. The average dosage of LSD<BR>
> today is about 90 - 120 *micrograms*. A crystal of concentrated LSD the<BR>
> size of the tip of a thumb is enough to manufacture many,  many doses. It<BR>
> goes without saying that acid is not a "volume" drug, and as such there's<BR>
> no real reason to cut acid with anything for economic gain, nor to keep<BR>
> the dosage low. LSD takes a while to take effect, if you want to rip<BR>
> somebody off, it's cheaper and easier to just sell "blank" pieces of<BR>
> blotter paper. Doses of LSD are usually eye-dropped onto blotter paper.<BR>
> You would feel nothing if the same amount of speed, or just about any<BR>
> other drug, was dropped onto the same blotter paper. Other methods of<BR>
> taking LSD are also physically small. "Microdots" are just a little bit<BR>
> bigger than the enamel head on an old-fashioned pin and "geltabs" are a<BR>
> little smaller than a pencil eraser, and both forms are made up of<BR>
> substances which are far cheaper than anything anybody would want to cut<BR>
> LSD with.<BR>
<BR>
However LSD requires a lot more care and skill to make than meth. Here <BR>
in NZ, from what I've been told, most of the acid is laced with speed. <BR>
Bear in mind that just because there's only a few micrograms of acid <BR>
there's no reason that 20 - 40 odd milligrams of speed can't be added.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 19:52:34 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: OT US Gun Control C**P on TML<BR>
<BR>
Date sent:      	Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:45:16 +0000<BR>
From:           	SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
<BR>
> <RANT><BR>
<BR>
Please add my voice to your rant.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Andrew etc<BR>
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 01:04:56 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Mistranslating the Ten Commandments (was Re: SillyTraveller)<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 06:06 PM 12/17/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Also, elsewhere in the TNK, "Suffer not a witch to live" should<BR>
> >have read "poisoner" for "witch".<BR>
> <BR>
> I've also seen an argument for "cook who wastes food"<BR>
<BR>
Ah.  From the Contemporary Vilani Edition, no doubt.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 01:09:29 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: independent Terran invention of jump drive? sure<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net><BR>
> <BR>
> >I think he's going to make an excellent addition to<BR>
> >the order.>>--Glenn><BR>
> <BR>
> >Does this mean that it is now legal for me to:<BR>
> >1) Assert that figthers are just SDBs stripped of<BR>
> >long term life support<BR>
> >2) Jump is a state not a space<BR>
> >3) Jump, Stutterwarp, Wormholes, Gates & Psionic<BR>
> >Transfers are just different implementation of the<BR>
> >same underlying principle.<BR>
> >4) distribute assorted fragments from my notes on<BR>
> >Traveller/Galactica, Traveller/Dune & Traveller/UFO<BR>
> >5) Missiles are allowed as much accelleration as you<BR>
> >wish to build into them<BR>
> <BR>
> No, sorry, heretics meet down the hall.  This is<BR>
> templars/illuminati.  You're welcome to join both<BR>
> groups, as long as you can sometimes hold<BR>
> diametrically opposite positions in your mind<BR>
> simultaneously.<BR>
<BR>
And if you can't, you have no business joining the Illuminati in the<BR>
first place.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 01:15:00 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On 17 Dec 99, at 16:48, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > On the other hand, because the "effective dose" of LSD is *so* small, most<BR>
> > of the folks producing it "got away with" simply *appalling* lab<BR>
> > technique. Most acid contained impurities that would have been *fatal* if<BR>
> > the required dose was anywhere *near* that of most other drugs.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > So it's quite possible that the "brown acid" had so *really* nasty<BR>
> > contaminants, or had *gotten* contaminated by something nasty.<BR>
> <BR>
> They also would've been helped by the fact that LSD's LD50 is<BR>
> enormously higher than its ED50, so dangerous derivatives (not that I<BR>
> can think of any off-hand) would also be created in very minute<BR>
> quantities.<BR>
<BR>
At this point in the thread, I simply _have_ to provide the following<BR>
URL:<BR>
<BR>
http://anansi.panix.com/userdirs/ewl/mmf/parodies/MAKE.LSD.FAST2.html<BR>
<BR>
It's a parody of those "Make Money Fast!" spams/chain letters.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 01:25:12 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Royal Australian Space Navy<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On 18 Dec 99, at 13:47, Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Anb in keeping with Melbournes reputation as a jinxed ship when being<BR>
> > towed the to breakers she managed to slip the tow line and tried to run<BR>
> > down the tug. Perhaps thwe Virus?<BR>
> <BR>
> I'd say that's just what any decent ship would do. Would you want to<BR>
> have a go at those who're towing you to your doom? IIRC HMS Warspite<BR>
> also slipped her tow on the way to the wreckers.<BR>
<BR>
USS ST. LOUIS (CL-49), after serving many years as the Brazilian cruiser<BR>
TAMANDARE, sank herself while being towed to the wreckers.  Far better,<BR>
IMHO, that ST. LOUIS went that way, rather than being turned into razor<BR>
blades.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:19:31<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rations<BR>
<BR>
At 12:16 AM 12/18/1999 EST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Ob Trav: I never saw any articles about plumbing or bodily functions in <BR>
>canon. I always wondered what you did about pets. Who walks the dog, or <BR>
>changes the cat litterbox?<BR>
<BR>
Memo: To Andy & Dom<BR>
<BR>
Forget about even asking.  I am *not* writing "101 Freshers"<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 01:44:23 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: FFW ship stats<BR>
<BR>
Dan Roseberry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> 2. How do you evaluate a ship/squadron in FFW<BR>
> terms? For example, if I have 50 400t patrol cruisers,<BR>
> does that rate 2-2-4.<BR>
> <BR>
If you have access to _Imperial Squadrons_ for T4, you can use those<BR>
rules to build squadrons.  Then, based on the budget required for a<BR>
given squadron, you can reverse-engineer the 4-8 ships in the squadron.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I wouldn't rate _any_ number of 400 dton patrol cruisers as<BR>
equivalent to a cruiser squadron.  I'd probably rate them as equivalent<BR>
to SDBs, at a ratio of two patrol cruisers equals one standard 400-dton<BR>
SDB (to account for the reduced war load mandated by jump capability). <BR>
Of course, they would be jump-capable, which makes them more<BR>
strategically deployable than SDBs of equivalent size.<BR>
<BR>
> 3. Is there a quick way to determine how many<BR>
> sdb's a system has in FFW?<BR>
<BR>
_Imperial Squadrons_ (which, BTW, is based on FFW) has a table on page<BR>
28 for SDB squadrons, based on population of a world, cross-referenced<BR>
with TL.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 03:03:48 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rations<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/17/99 11:22:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Memo: To Andy & Dom<BR>
 <BR>
 Forget about even asking.  I am *not* writing "101 Freshers"<BR>
 --  >><BR>
<BR>
ROTFLMAO!!! SPLORT!!!! add me to the soaked keyboard brigade...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 03:09:15 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/17/99 10:12:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
jimpeta@primus.com.au writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  A nice survival weapon for the IISS would be a bullpup 5mm/12Gauge combo<BR>
 survival weapon. >><BR>
<BR>
Query: How do lefties use it? Granted it's caseless, but.... I look at <BR>
pictures of modern bullpup weapons, and it looks like a lefty would have <BR>
his/her face up against the ejector port. Can some of the gun/anti gun <BR>
flamies help me with this one?<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: I assume everything is ambi, or gene therapy has eliminated left <BR>
hand dominance (sounds very Solomani, doesn't it...:-) )<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 19:21:23 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
<BR>
><<  A nice survival weapon for the IISS would be a bullpup 5mm/12Gauge<BR>
combo<BR>
> survival weapon. >><BR>
><BR>
>Query: How do lefties use it? Granted it's caseless, but.... I look at<BR>
>pictures of modern bullpup weapons, and it looks like a lefty would have<BR>
>his/her face up against the ejector port. Can some of the gun/anti gun<BR>
>flamies help me with this one?<BR>
><BR>
>Ob Trav: I assume everything is ambi, or gene therapy has eliminated left<BR>
>hand dominance (sounds very Solomani, doesn't it...:-) )<BR>
<BR>
    No, Solomani's want the lefties to get hit in the face with hot brass.<BR>
    You can change the handedness of the weapon. Even though it is caseless<BR>
you need a method of getting duds out of the chamber so you need a port, it<BR>
just isn't open often.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1523<BR>
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